All teachers or even students: Pay attention to this issue..

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[Bryan Rundi]

To All:

I have one matter to raise here. I have been looking at this matter for quite some time and I think I should discuss it with you all.

Undeniably, English is extremely important nowadays. Universities demand their new students to have good english and I totally cannot disagree.

Students have been learning English their entire life whether formally or informally. Since primary school, students were taught about basic english such as present tenses, past tenses, and punctuations. This is all important for mastering the language.

But when students enter high school or secondary school, they get more matured. And I think students should have known the basics by the time they enter secondary school. Should they be prepared with standard English??

Because what I have seen is that, less importance is given towards guiding the students to have good english. Mostly, it is just the case of trying to pass english essay paper.

I think, when students enter secondary school, priority should be given in teaching students for having good english, communicating precisely using standard english and not using bahasa rojak. The case here is that, focus should be in improving student's communicating skills in English. This is essential for the future.

I hope this matter could be discussed. I'm looking forward for some replies.

Cheers,
Bryan Rundi
Form 4
Science Student
SMK Bandar Bintulu.

[Richard Boon]

I agree with what you've posted here, Bryan. To communicate effectively (in English, or just any other languages), one need to master the basic rules (i.e. the grammar) of it. Studying all these in school is not sufficient. Take an English class in a primary school for example. We were only allocated several periods per week to impart the knowledge to our students. But now the PPSMI is around, so English is used in Science and Maths classes.
Back to what worries you, being a learner of English, at your age. Yes, you are learning the language to pass the exams whilst learning to communicate. I did not see anything lacking there, as you did not mention whether you use the language outside the classroom, i.e. in or around the school or even at home. If you do use the language other than the classroom, I do not see that you have 'less' time using it. Please bear in mind that daily conversations is only good for oral drill. It does not 'guarantee' that we use/learn proper or correct grammar. Linguists agree that oral communication is less controlled, and users tend to use the language 'freely'. On the other hand, a written communication is controlled. You need to write and re-write anything before you let your audience read what you have written.
Am I on the right track, Bryan? Let's have the other 'forumers' discuss on this further.

[Siti Mariam bt Sulaiman]

I like the matter arise by our student here... It is good to concern on matter that matters to oneself...

I am not an English teacher so I am not much aware what being taught in class but I'm sure it is English. So, I would like to ask you Bryan, how do you define standard English?

I still remember way back at college mara, the entire form were divided accordingly into 3 English level, weak, mediate and good. Each classes have different approach used by the teachers. The focus is differ based on level.

The weak and mediate class, they are more concentrate in grammar and mostly comprehension so that the students are able to score in English Paper. For the good class where the students are able to get A for their English, the focus is more on how to communicate accordingly in daily life and more towards public speaking and having activities that is more relax and fun.

I am not saying that grammar is less important but as I grow older, I realize that, I need to concentrate on my communication rather then focusing on my grammar. I also think that it is crucial for you to have good English background if you want to excel in your work, depends on what career are you having in mind.

If you intended to pursue Verbal Linguistic major in English, example to become English teacher, writer, reporter, and ect than you should be learning standard English but other than that, as long as you can converse in English and understand basic english, you'll be fine. Some may not agree with me but not all people are good at verbal language.

If you want to be really good in English, you should practice with people around you. Either you inspired them or being inspired by them. Read lots of English materials and do not depend 100% in class because teacher cannot teach you everything. You have to work hard yourself. If this is not answering your concern, rephrase so that I could really get what bothers you. Chills... 

[Bryan Rundi]

Firstly, thank you teachers for spending time to discuss on this topic.

The way I define standard English is using the language appropriately, precisely, zero grammar error and speaking using the language fluently with good English and a variety of vocabs.

Yes, I have both teachers point right. I do agree that verbal communication outside the classroom is vital for improving one's communication skill.

I have seen many of my friends speaking English daily and what I am sad is that they are not speaking fluently and I am really concern about that. This scenario should not sustain for a long period until they further their studies. I do concern for them actually...

So, what I think is that, teachers should concentrate on both the grammar used by students in their writing and the way they communicate using the language daily.

Any other opinions???
Give feedbacks..

[Richard Boon]

Dear Bryan,
I am also impress by people who can speak English fluently. It is through practices after practices. I've tried to 'copy' them (especially the TV or radio DJs) but my tongue does not cooperate with me! But fluent speakers are not always free from speaking errors. If you are a good listener, you'll notice there are some flaws (especially on the tongue-twister part of it).

[Timothy Salang ak James Anin]

In 2005, I attend a course organized by the British Council.
Their quote "we don't want students who obtained A in their English, cannot communicate in the language fluently".
Think about this.

[Ophelia Jane Liew]

Well, there's one more thing we all should bear in mind that is the purpose of teaching English in Malaysia. As we are usually told, learning English in Malaysia is for the sake of communication. So which is more important right now, spoken or written language? If me, I would say all 4 skills are equally important which are speaking, listening, writing and reading. Only when you are good in all these skills then you can consider yourself as fluent in the language.
In fact, in real life, I do have friends who speak English at home but aren't that good at writing! While those who are very good at writing not necessarily good in speaking. Therefore, I think we should take every opportunity learn to be competent in all 4 skills instead of just in one or two. It'll be good if we can master all skills, they'll lead you to many good things in life when you leave school.

[Christina Agang]

I'm not an English teacher, but I would like to join the discussion as I love the language. It is not wrong to be strong in one skill; for example we Malaysian tend to be better in writing as we learn English in classroom and through reading. Nevertheless, I think with astro, more english radio programmes and the internet (easier to download english songs) and the emergence of the popular american culture, youth nowadays are more exposed to verbal (or spoken) english-not the intended queen english, yet still english.

And I don't think it is very wrong for school children to try to converse in   'non-standard' english-as they are still learning. As long as they don't make a habit of it. Bryan, may be one day you'll join the corporate world or private sectors-then you will have to write lots of reports. Especially if you are in the professional fields. Only then will you realize the importance of good writing skill. As you grow up and mingle more with english speakers, you will slowly develop your spoken english, but your written english should be good from now!

[William P Nojey]

First of all, I am impressed with Bryan for having brought up this matter of the teaching and learning of the English Language. Obviously, you have no difficulties in expressing yourself in the language. Well done!
As in most things, one will only learn effectively if there is deep interest in acquiring that knowledge. In acquring the ability to communicate in English fluently, one needs to master the four language skills, namely Listening & Speaking, Reading and Writing in equal measure. Most English Language lessons will incorporate some or all skills in the teaching-learning process.
Fluency in the language will come with a lot of practice (and correction of mistakes, of course). This practice should not be confined to the language classroom only. Every opportunity outside the classroom should be taken to improve your language skills. This requires deep interest in the language on the part of the learner. Unfortunately, this is where most of our students are lacking. Their capacity and ability to learn the language is not in doubt.

[Teoh Say Beng]

Dear Bryan,
Thank you very much for your concern when you said
"I have seen many of my friends speaking English daily and what I am sad is that they are not speaking fluently and I am really concern about that. This scenario should not sustain for a long period until they further their studies. I do concern for them actually..."

As a former trained English Teacher in Primary school (now I'm teaching History in Secondary School).... I feel there's nothing wrong about your friends not speaking fluent English... the main point I see from here is at least they are speaking the language daily.... Practise and usage goes a long way to help one to improve their fluency... Rome was not built in a day... I'm glad they are still willing to speak even though their fluency may not be good.... This is a good sign. Keep it up.
Of course some may even master or be fluent in a shorter time, if they have the correct environment and exposure to good or proper English speakers (and other materials)....

Thank you.

[Jong Tian Se]

Speaking good and fluent English takes time because we are not living in an English speaking community/environment.Speaking is one of the skills in learning the language.How much English do students speak a day?. That is already a slack in the process of learning the language. In order to be fluent you have to speak the language frequently. Teachers must also teach their students to pronounce words correctly(refer to the pronunciation table in a good dictionary).

[Teoh Say Beng]

Speaking good and fluent English takes time because we are not living in an English speaking community/environment.Speaking is one of the skills in learning the language.How much English do students speak a day?. That is already a slack in the process of learning the language. In order to be fluent you have to speak the language frequently. Teachers must also teach their students to pronounce words correctly(refer to the pronunciation table in a good dictionary).

As I've said above in my recent post, it is a good sign that the students have shown interest to take the trouble to speak in English..... Therefore the fluency will gradually improve with time....
With proper guidance from their teachers and their peers (who speak better or fluent English), this will serve to enhance the student's confidence to continue speaking in better English.

As for the lack of time or exposure to English, this can be maximised with quality time in English teaching & learning process. With the students interest to learn and speak the language, this would not be too difficult to achieve.

[Timothy Salang ak James Anin]

I agree with Mr Teoh SB. I've been on a course with the British Counsel from KL. At the enda of the course, they expect only one thing. Doesn't matter whether the students obtain A's or not, all they concern is the student can communicate in English.

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